Multiverse II: Being Grateful for the *Now*

 🚨 WARNING! 🚨 

This episode of Distraction Dive deals with heavy themes like suicide and depression. If you or a loved one need help, please use this website to find the phone number to call.

WELCOME TO SEASON 2 OF DISTRACTION DIVE!

In this season premiere, Red & Del reflect on the lessons learned throughout the challenging year of 2025. Join them as they explore themes of gratitude, confronting toxic masculinity, and celebrating personal growth. They also share their unique perspectives on self-acceptance and happiness, emphasizing the importance of being present in the moment. As they navigate through their experiences, they encourage listeners to recognize the beauty in their own journeys, however far along they may be. 

Discover why there’s no other universe they would choose, and how you can cultivate the same sense of gratitude in your life!

→ Braincell Discord

→ TrueRedRevenge Twitch

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:16:46
Warning. This episode of Distraction Dive deals with heavy themes like depression and suicide. If you or a loved one need help, there are resources in the description of this episode. Discretion is advised.

00:00:16:51 - 00:00:30:04
Well, the mics are hot. I am called Dell. Everything on me has hurt at least once before. And everything on me will once again. And that will be the case for all of us.

00:00:30:04 - 00:00:33:01
This is distraction dive. Welcome to

00:00:33:06 - 00:00:36:14
and with

00:00:36:19 - 00:00:37:22
me, is my boy.

00:00:37:28 - 00:00:42:18

It's red. This is. It's your boy red? I hope you all are well.

00:00:42:25 - 00:00:43:25
Unknown
Del, I

00:00:43:29 - 00:00:59:41
Unknown
am very reflective at the end of the year. Always. I don't know if that's commonplace. Are you? I had a feeling like a lot more people are, especially the end of 2025, going into a fresh 2026 top of the year.

00:00:59:41 - 00:01:11:44
Unknown
And I've. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel a lot of anxiety about what might be what will be, what could be. But today.

00:01:11:49 - 00:01:20:47
Unknown
I wanted to talk about being grateful for right now somehow. Somehow. Yeah.

00:01:20:52 - 00:01:43:32
Unknown
So, you know, as is probably going to be the tradition for distraction. Dive this pod for. That's the name of the show that you're listening to. I felt that it was important for me to tell you all that. For some reason, I guess. But, again. But, as is going to be tradition for distraction dive, I think going forward and we are going to start with just kind of like multiverse it up, you know, like, what the fuck's going on?

00:01:43:33 - 00:01:52:08
Unknown
Like what what globally is kind of happening with us,

00:01:52:13 - 00:01:57:04
Unknown
Yeah.

00:01:57:09 - 00:02:18:37
Unknown
to me, this thing kind of like sits in that line, I think there's been a lot of, 20, 25 has been a year where a lot of things were big changes, and were a lot of hard work, but also suddenly a lot of them are kind of paying off.

00:02:18:37 - 00:02:32:25
Unknown
And I'm seeing a bunch of different differences. And a lot of that has been as a result of, being

00:02:32:30 - 00:02:36:17
Unknown
Yeah.

00:02:36:22 - 00:02:50:05
Unknown
because I like and channel that into making meaningful changes, because it means I was able to be vulnerable about and honest about what's going on with me and in my head and to, you know, action.

00:02:50:05 - 00:03:21:00
Unknown
Lovely. Work with that and be more present in my body rather than living in my head, like out of anxiety about, yeah, what's going to happen and like what I've got to do in preparation for that. Or like, you know, all of this shame avoidance in the back of my head, which is, I think, going to be the big piece for me about shame, avoidance, that I have like had a different relationship with, after breaking a cycle of many, many, many, many or starting to break a cycle of many, many, many, many, many, many, many long years, you know, and it begins with awareness and being present with like.

00:03:21:05 - 00:03:36:06
Unknown
Yeah, let's. Yeah, that's the the bird's eye view and I'll laugh about it, but, I've got, I've got a related take for sure. So I'm glad we're talking about

00:03:36:11 - 00:03:37:41
Unknown
me, tell me what's going on with you, man.

00:03:37:46 - 00:03:40:37
Unknown
Well, what what led you to

00:03:40:41 - 00:03:57:52
Unknown
I really came to realize that even though I stew and, I do, I do be stewing.

00:03:57:56 - 00:04:05:57
Unknown
What? I don't even know what that means.

00:04:06:02 - 00:04:07:05
Unknown
I'm grateful for that.

00:04:07:11 - 00:04:33:38
Unknown
the big thing for me is that I. This year has been tough politically to watch. It's been also my most active since probably the BLM protests in a long time politically, politically speaking. Yeah. And maybe also just finally figuring out that, oh, shit, working out actually does make me feel emotionally better.

00:04:33:38 - 00:04:46:04
Unknown
And I hate that now. I hate that, but I'm also grateful for it. Right? I'm grateful for finding that out four weeks ago.

00:04:46:09 - 00:05:12:44
Unknown
Part of me is always known it, but. But goddamn, do I also love it. That's how I start my day. Even though I'm not a morning person. It is what gets me up in the morning to then start the other stuff. And it gives me more time in the day and realizing that I need to be awake more than I should be asleep to feel better or as well, is something I become grateful for.

00:05:12:44 - 00:05:13:46
Unknown
And also.

00:05:13:51 - 00:05:15:51
Unknown
Yeah, I just I don't want to.

00:05:15:57 - 00:05:17:00
Unknown
math, baby.

00:05:17:05 - 00:05:29:34
Unknown
Yeah, I only sleep about six hours a night, and that's if I'm sleeping. Well, and I come to find I don't need much more. Yeah.

00:05:29:39 - 00:05:40:06
Unknown
people age out of needing, like, as much sleep. Like as much as, you know, like, the most sleep I recall needing was in adolescence. I needed, like, 13, 12

00:05:40:11 - 00:06:00:54
Unknown
Oh, God, I yeah, I think the longest I slept was probably about 14 hours, when? Especially when we were teenagers and also being stressed, depressed ever of all time. Of all time. Because I remember getting. I remember is probably the longest I've slept straight. Yeah, I know they're rookie numbers. I know.

00:06:00:59 - 00:06:04:12
Unknown
I've racked up 21 on multiple occasions.

00:06:04:17 - 00:06:17:49
Unknown
Yeah, but like you always. Yeah. You also put yourself through a lot of shit as well, you know. Was that during residency, the 21 hours.

00:06:17:54 - 00:06:40:47
Unknown
Yeah. Okay. That tracks that full tracks. But yeah, I don't want this to be about our sleep habits, but it is, I, I what what keeps you present? Well, what do you find? Keeps you grounded and in your body? Because that is something that I really struggled with figuring out this year. And I want to know what your like, what puzzle pieces fit for you.

00:06:40:52 - 00:07:03:58
Unknown
you know what? I appreciate that you're hitting this on the head, and I think that that's really so I think really, the very simple piece of it was that, I think I realized in the past year and a half. But, and better began to engage with this thing, during this year, the calendar year of 2025 that I wasn't present, the recognition that I was not,

00:07:04:03 - 00:07:12:20
Unknown
some of our listeners are, you know, longtime friends of mine and ours, and you'll probably maybe you'll remember me having said this before.

00:07:12:20 - 00:07:23:25
Unknown
I'm like, I know myself really well. And that was well. Anyway, research

00:07:23:30 - 00:07:39:05
Unknown
I, I wouldn't say that I don't know myself at all, but it's just how much of what I understand about myself is out of or understood and understand about myself is out of patterns and things that I accept or trust from other people that.

00:07:39:10 - 00:07:40:21
Unknown
I just took on

00:07:40:21 - 00:07:49:25
Unknown
as truth. I think we've talked about this before, but, the small domino here for me was realizing that I'm not an extrovert. And all my life I thought I

00:07:49:30 - 00:07:59:57
Unknown
I always thought you were too. I mean, I, I, but I guess you were trying to maybe prove it to yourself that you were going. Yeah.

00:08:00:02 - 00:08:17:36
Unknown
even know that. I was like, well, like, I like this thing, so that's why I'm doing it. I'm supposed to like it and, like, you know, kind of related to we just got done listener is recording an episode that you're going to hear later, talking, which is about, the

00:08:17:40 - 00:08:26:11
Unknown
I guess I just it was like, yeah, well said it was a version of that. But for me, it was recognizing that somebody, I trust very much told me about how,

00:08:26:11 - 00:08:29:19
Unknown
it just kind of came up through gentle and consistent,

00:08:29:32 - 00:08:31:46
Unknown
support from that person, but also,

00:08:31:46 - 00:08:34:17
Unknown
I think it was just being able to stop

00:08:34:27 - 00:08:39:28
Unknown
lying to myself that that was the case in a hundred million different small ways.

00:08:39:28 - 00:08:41:18
Unknown
It came from just.

00:08:41:23 - 00:09:07:03
Unknown
Recognizing that that was going on. It's kind of like being. It's like an addiction. You want to have a certain narrative for yourself. And then in part, it helps me motivate and, you know, get myself other things. It's like I'm supposed to be this extroverted person who flits from situation to situation and like, this is the part that I play and like, you know, that's how you know, that makes me feel good, happy.

00:09:07:04 - 00:09:22:07
Unknown
TM and so I need to do that. And if things are hard and like I don't feel good during that, it's because I worked really hard during it and it's because I feel so bad. I'm such a decent person and I feel so bad. That like maybe can work,

00:09:22:07 - 00:09:26:24
Unknown
for a time. But then I started bearing the brunt of that because I pushed myself

00:09:26:24 - 00:09:43:49
Unknown
you know what, I, I pulled myself in too many directions trying to do too much without being honest with myself about that thing. And eventually the bit crumbles, right? You can't keep doing stuff. You know what? It really comes down to it. That's not a good way to motivate yourself to do anything.

00:09:43:49 - 00:10:01:11
Unknown
Anything that's not honest with yourself is not a good way to motivate yourself to do anything. And ultimately, when you have to choose between that and, you know, doing whatever that thing is, fulfilling that narrative and things that are very tangible, like, I'm so tired, I need more sleep or whatever you want, you'll have to look in the mirror and be like, I'm unhappy

00:10:01:23 - 00:10:02:46
Unknown
and something is wrong.

00:10:03:00 - 00:10:03:41
Unknown
And

00:10:03:41 - 00:10:22:56
Unknown
the reason for that is because, yeah, like, I, I guess like the things that fill my cup are not the ones that fill my cup as much as I thought. And it's weird to get to know yourself. I had to hear that, you know, and it started with being like, I need time away from people. And, like, I feel bad about that because I feel responsible that I should be

00:10:23:03 - 00:10:24:06
Unknown
should do more.

00:10:24:06 - 00:10:41:31
Unknown
I feel ashamed that I'm not doing that because I'm lucky and that people count on me. I have enough, I have a degree of capacity that people that I trusted look up to and value, etc. feel that they can rely on me, or that I can be in their corner in some way and they never ask this thing of me.

00:10:41:31 - 00:11:03:33
Unknown
It's just I decided all in my head that if I don't meet a set of benchmarks about being present and extroverted in whatever, that I'm not doing good. And I was driving myself crazy for it and building myself up like it. Also, really, it served to isolate me. I became resentful of myself and those people, all because of like us again, like.

00:11:03:33 - 00:11:16:54
Unknown
And they don't realize this. I just made it all up in my head, like much of it. Like I you know what I mean? I was like, I decided that I had to do that, and I got upset with them because I had to present that thing to other people, which was draining. And I associate that thing with them rather.

00:11:16:54 - 00:11:34:54
Unknown
And that's the thing like the association. And without examining myself and accepting that maybe I'm this way and I hadn't been being honest, and I therefore have not been telling that right thing to other people that I love. I'm not empowering anybody to who loves

00:11:34:58 - 00:12:07:15
Unknown
Yeah. And I was actually really wanting to talk about that because you know for me the self-awareness broke when. And I am so paraphrasing and maybe even trying to be a little bit funny. My therapist is yeah. My therapist said it kind of like, well if you're so self-aware, are you aware that you are hurting the people around you by not accepting their critique and their praise in equal measure?

00:12:07:15 - 00:12:31:47
Unknown
And do you realize that you're basically not accepting reality? You're living in an alternate universe. You're living in an alternate world in this. Almost in this. Yeah, almost like you built this, character that you now have to embody. You, you you put on this mask and you said, I know this mask so well. It's basically me

00:12:31:52 - 00:12:34:25
Unknown
And you're like, nobody cared who I was

00:12:34:30 - 00:12:45:51
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. That's correct. And, I was just sort of sitting with that and.

00:12:45:55 - 00:13:10:17
Unknown
Had to. I broke down in that therapy session heavily. I cry, I sobbed, and I just came to realize that, oh, no, I don't know who I am. I don't know what I want, I don't know who I am to people anymore. I you know, but I also wanted to keep up this weird facade of, well, I, I'm not traumatized.

00:13:10:17 - 00:13:32:44
Unknown
Yeah, I can't yeah, I'm not traumatized. I, I'm not, confused about my identity. I know who I am, I know what I want, I know what I like, you know, and that bled into all of my relationships. And it harmed all of my relationships to, to varying degrees, right? Yeah. I, you and I are so strikingly similar

00:13:32:44 - 00:13:38:53
Unknown
And it also makes me think that we aren't the only ones out there that feel this way either,

00:13:39:04 - 00:13:49:57
Unknown
For me, it was I'm so self-aware because I was trying to protect ego. I was trying to protect some self-worth that I didn't actually have, but I was pretending was there.

00:13:49:57 - 00:14:22:59
Unknown
It was, Yeah. It's that fairly OddParents meme. It's like I put my ego here if I had one. And or, like, I put my self-worth. Yeah, exactly. If I. Here's where I put my self-worth. If I had it, And I just can't. It's true. It's it's. I was so proud of this thing. This thing that I built, that it ended up hurting.

00:14:23:04 - 00:14:27:19
Unknown
Yeah. My empire of dirt. Exactly. And.

00:14:27:24 - 00:14:36:44
Unknown
Cash for the bars. And. Sorry. Sorry. Thanks. Trent Reznor for the bars. Sorry, I know that. I know that that was actually originally by

00:14:36:48 - 00:14:44:53
Unknown
I always forget that. I always forget that one of the one of the rare instances where I think the cover is better than the original,

00:14:44:58 - 00:14:52:38
Unknown
Trent Reznor agreed. And he compared it to, like, learning that your partner has made out with somebody

00:14:52:43 - 00:14:59:53
Unknown
hot, but I, I the subtext I, I felt like I picked up from that. He's like what? It's like they're it's like that SpongeBob thing. He's like,

00:14:59:58 - 00:15:25:15
Unknown
Oh, he. Yeah. And, well, I mean it even through. And I was living in a different reality. I was living in a different, you know, some sort of multiverse where I thought, yeah, yeah. And I thought that my day, Lulu was healthier than everybody else is to Lulu. And that was not okay either. You know?

00:15:25:20 - 00:15:37:29
Unknown
like casual elite ism that I was doing. Yeah, I it's very interesting we didn't talk about this listeners beforehand in this in this way. So we're we're actually, this is like we're live realizing that we

00:15:37:33 - 00:15:39:40
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah.

00:15:39:45 - 00:15:42:24
Unknown
This happens. We've known each other for a really long time.

00:15:42:24 - 00:15:45:40
Unknown
This happened still a lot more than you would think.

00:15:45:45 - 00:15:51:24
Unknown
20, 20 years, next year.

00:15:51:29 - 00:16:08:53
Unknown
Yep. We are old. We are old. Yeah, we we met. We met when we were, 1213. Now the. Yeah, next year will be 20 years.

00:16:08:58 - 00:16:16:59
Unknown
Yeah, right. I know an old,

00:16:17:04 - 00:16:26:39
Unknown
They are the same. It's. Mostly the old part.

00:16:26:43 - 00:16:33:22
Unknown
My bones fucking crack. When I stand now, I sound like an empty water bottle. Getting crushed constantly.

00:16:33:27 - 00:16:37:03
Unknown
and RFK is America. I'm unvaccinated, and

00:16:37:08 - 00:16:45:58
Unknown
My poor. It hurts.

00:16:46:03 - 00:16:48:42
Unknown
Yeah.

00:16:48:47 - 00:16:58:03
Unknown
I strongly agree about, like, I was also living in a parallel reality, and it was like, okay, I have an

00:16:58:08 - 00:16:59:56
Unknown
Yeah. Please.

00:17:00:01 - 00:17:02:43
Unknown
ethnicity is not white.

00:17:02:47 - 00:17:04:17
Unknown
Allegedly.

00:17:04:22 - 00:17:15:30
Unknown
allegedly and so, there is a degree of and I think this is present in most upbringings, but I grew

00:17:15:35 - 00:17:38:45
Unknown
And my parents are immigrants. And so the place that they have come from and in that society and and immigrant society of that type and and there are many but I can only really speak about mine. There's a degree of, internalized misogyny that takes place that enables, people who are assigned birth men. And when I refer to them as men from now on, I know that we

00:17:38:49 - 00:17:43:59
Unknown
There is nuance. Yeah. Let's. We can keep the language easy. Yeah.

00:17:44:04 - 00:17:58:22
Unknown
to, like, be glib about this. It's just like, for my convenience, because I the way it is, the way that I be, I want to refer to that as men from now on. But know that I'm speaking about, assigned better known as

00:17:58:27 - 00:17:59:30
Unknown
Yeah. Cool.

00:17:59:37 - 00:18:17:38
Unknown
I'd love to my people who identify as as that, who are karyotype X, X, Y or anything else like that, you know, get get get it, get it straight in your heads. People. This is for me. I am not like this is not a value judgment. I'm just referring to a thing that is like an anthropological thing.

00:18:17:42 - 00:18:23:33
Unknown
Okay. Have I done have I done it? I have, I washed my hands. Hopefully I'm not upsetting anybody. I really don't want to.

00:18:23:38 - 00:18:25:48
Unknown
Oh, no.

00:18:25:53 - 00:18:36:47
Unknown
I have a younger sister, who is about four years younger than me. And I had this conversation with my one of my parents, both of them at one point, but I don't remember who was first.

00:18:36:47 - 00:18:55:31
Unknown
I think my mother and we were discussing, you know, there is this degree of expectation of my sister who's who does the same, like, day job now that I do. She's in her residency right now, which is brutal. A lot of, you know, 80 hours a week in minimal time, you get two, three weeks off in the year.

00:18:55:36 - 00:19:19:36
Unknown
And so we all met up for, family holiday recently. And as a part of that, the expectation for my sister has always been that she comes early with time to help get the house ready. And to clean it up, make 2 or 3 dishes and do one something like that's like the bare minimum. And for me, it's like I am from it's like it's good enough that I,

00:19:19:41 - 00:19:24:58
Unknown
But just. We don't expect much. Please, just be here.

00:19:25:03 - 00:19:29:01
Unknown
have a and I have reasons that are, you know, to do with that.

00:19:29:01 - 00:19:46:57
Unknown
I have a complicated relationship to food. Okay. So like I'm not a great I'm not good at or particularly driven to cook cause I don't really, you know, I'm one of those people. I don't really live to eat. I eat to live. So I, you know, I'm giving myself some space there, but, I just never, like, learn to do all that stuff.

00:19:46:57 - 00:20:03:57
Unknown
But then I also had the side narrative that like, oh, nobody gets me. I'm simultaneously the gold star and black sheep in my

00:20:04:02 - 00:20:12:00
Unknown
saw myself up until, you know, this year and a half or so or more of transition, a violent, violently becoming self-aware.

00:20:12:00 - 00:20:18:54
Unknown
And it was hurting me like I was I was becoming distant from people that I loved on the basis of something that was ultimately wrong.

00:20:18:54 - 00:20:28:08
Unknown
not that the distress was any less real. And the part about it that fucked me up is that my the people that I was close with, my sister in particular, kind of helped me see this, among other, among others.

00:20:28:08 - 00:20:45:13
Unknown
But, you know, she's such she's like, you're so hard on yourself. And I like, told her I like, went to her randomly. I was like, I realized this was the case and I like, really pushed my. I've been pushing myself to like be better about that and help her out and not just like, do the accidental weaponized incompetence of imagine in in households of this type.

00:20:45:18 - 00:21:06:23
Unknown
Right. Where I would I was like, hey, man, like, I realize that you've had like a completely different set of things going on, and like, you've always been very genuinely in my corner listening to me vent and, like, helping me take advice about this when, giving me advice on how to manage this and, like, hearing me out and sound boarding this with me, and I just realized you've had a completely different experience of it.

00:21:06:23 - 00:21:27:13
Unknown
That's like objectively more difficult. And I'm not saying like, so, you know, I'm sorry about that. Like, I want to do better shit. My is like, it's okay. Like you're being really hard on yourself and like, you know, my view about it. And I think most of us feel like we don't. You didn't know and I could tell like, it's just as difficult for you, like, your distress or whatever about that was still a real even if it was, you know, in parallel to my own as something else.

00:21:27:13 - 00:21:44:16
Unknown
Right. Which was different. And I was like, yeah, but I the thing about that that gets me to I said to my sister is that it's that that's probably so lonely, like, because I always had you to talk to you about all of this stuff. And I felt like, you know, like I'm all of, like, this is like one of my most difficult, like, personal struggles, like, you know, the one.

00:21:44:20 - 00:21:56:17
Unknown
And you had this separate thing that, like, you couldn't go there with me because I didn't have an understanding of it, and you wouldn't have been able to break it to me because I was

00:21:56:22 - 00:22:14:19
Unknown
The feedback of your too hard on yourself or the feedback of, like. I have it hard. Yeah, I have it harder or whatever it might be, even though I. I don't think comparing that is fair. Yeah, sure.

00:22:14:24 - 00:22:28:49
Unknown
not like you have to understand what it is so that you can have an honest conversation. Right? And I did not. It's not that like, you know, my distress wasn't real or whatever. It's just that I wasn't able to without understanding that thing.

00:22:28:53 - 00:22:43:59
Unknown
I can't, like, work through it because I feel like I have a I had a chip on my shoulder right. And so I, I was like, I feel wrong that I'm supposed to like, live in this like sense of feeling wronged. And there are parts, whatever, like people hurt your feelings and do whatever. And I'm not saying that like, oh, it's all my fault or all made up.

00:22:43:59 - 00:23:02:15
Unknown
It's just that, like, I have to sort that out and put it somewhere and decide, you know, what am I going to do about this and give people a chance and not just like withdraw into myself as a result of it and be stressed out. And every time I see people that I, you know, in this situation, I'm like half way checked out because I'm so stressed out about, shame, avoidance and not sharing certain things.

00:23:02:15 - 00:23:17:29
Unknown
And I'm afraid that they're going to like, say a certain thing or is going to come across a certain way. And I'm just like, you know, it's like suddenly I'm trying to fast forward through time. In my mind, I'm like, I'm hoping this is going to be over sooner, and I can like, go back to doing whatever, and I'm not going to get that back.

00:23:17:29 - 00:23:38:08
Unknown
And that was just, you know, time with my family and time with whomever. And it's just very tough, to realize that I was skipping through that as a result of, like, just not being willing to basically hear something it to be like, I want to let this go so I can stop having embracing this feeling of victimhood or being put upon so I can feel like, oh, I work really hard or whatever.

00:23:38:20 - 00:23:55:14
Unknown
And I'm not saying, again, you know that. Well, anyway, too many caveats. The point is that that was important for me to hear and recognize. And I told my sister I was like, you know, that must be really lonely. I don't know. I don't wanna put words in your mouth. But to me, I found that piece. I was complaining about the feeling of isolation, about that.

00:23:55:14 - 00:24:00:44
Unknown
And I appreciate that you were so graceful hearing me when you were like, oh, isolation. Talk about

00:24:00:48 - 00:24:01:31
Unknown
Yeah.

00:24:01:36 - 00:24:12:14
Unknown
She was like, you're really hard on yourself, but it's okay. Like, I, I love you and I appreciate what you're saying. Like, it's all good. Like, you know, we're we're moving forward together. Everybody's on their own journey. And, you know, I know you didn't mean anything by it.

00:24:12:14 - 00:24:15:19
Unknown
And, I just. Yeah, it's. You know, I

00:24:15:24 - 00:24:40:31
Unknown
Yeah. You were reaching out for help, and if she wanted to reach out for help, she could have. Oh, it's just that being being the eldest in a family comes with its own pressures. A lot of firsts happen for the parents as well as for the child. And there's a lot of, like, complex things that happen there that, you know, sometimes maybe we wish just didn't happen that way.

00:24:40:31 - 00:25:02:02
Unknown
But alas, we have to call ourselves in every now and again. And I also wish I had had that lesson as well. That's a very I had not thought about that. In regards to your family before, I had not considered also the pressures on the youngest in a family as well in, in a, in a nuclear family.

00:25:02:07 - 00:25:20:19
Unknown
because of, like, this traditional in this case, like the example in this case was about, like, very traditional gender roles, about, like prepping, like kitchen domestic work or whatever they fucking call it, whatever. You know, in that context, it is kind of like vaguely

00:25:20:24 - 00:25:25:49
Unknown
studied philosophy and I took a class about this and I like, knew that this was a thing like, yeah.

00:25:25:53 - 00:25:32:53
Unknown
So that was like that was tough. And I didn't want to I you know what

00:25:32:58 - 00:25:42:17
Unknown
like learned about gender difference. And I like, took classes about feminists. And I'm like, like you know, basically I was being one of those people that was like, oh, I just remembered that there's a gender wage gap.

00:25:42:17 - 00:25:45:09
Unknown
And I

00:25:45:14 - 00:25:49:02
Unknown
whatever. Right? Like, I don't know. And like, I just

00:25:49:07 - 00:25:53:03
Unknown
those things, man. Like I was doing that thing. Sorry to interrupt you. I just

00:25:53:03 - 00:26:21:10
Unknown
I know you didn't interrupt me at all. I know that was, that's the point of these multi-verse episodes. You know, we're kind of getting these things off of our chests about like I, I was a person who like to live in the future a lot. I like to or in an alternate future or, sometimes, you know, when I, when, I met Holly, I was, I was rotting in the past, I was, I was letting myself stay in this box of like.

00:26:21:10 - 00:26:50:14
Unknown
Well, I used to be cool. I used to do really cool stuff. And so therefore, the potential to do cool stuff is. Now I've used it, it's all gone. It's, Yeah. Oh, I, I I I'm, I'm, I'm sad to hear that genuinely. It sucks because it's like, you know, these things felt awesome at the time, but I didn't realize I can do so much cooler shit now, especially as an adult.

00:26:50:14 - 00:27:14:37
Unknown
And I am I am whatever I choose to be, right. And Holly taught me a lot about that in our the early days of our relationship. And the thing about, being, female presenting is there's, different pressures put on you than being male presenting, especially in the United States. And it's always been that. It's about it's been that way for longer than we've been alive.

00:27:14:37 - 00:27:19:58
Unknown
And it's it's unfair. Sure. Yeah. It it.

00:27:20:02 - 00:27:27:43
Unknown
like my family is not born. My parents are not born in the United States. And it comes like a different sort of that pressure that is like, but it's like same

00:27:27:48 - 00:27:32:42
Unknown
I, I guess I just have a really hard time personally speaking.

00:27:32:47 - 00:27:37:10
Unknown
to say, like I can I can definitely say it exists

00:27:37:14 - 00:28:03:15
Unknown
And and I know that to be true. I've, I've, I've seen all of the stories, you know, I being in college and and taking the, you know, taking sociology, anthropology and really finally just really, truly realizing that men really fuck shit up hard. And none of them, none of them were alphas, by the way. They were all fucking losers.

00:28:03:15 - 00:28:31:05
Unknown
And colonizers, and they're the same picture, and they just all subjugated women. Because women are very powerful. They can be very effective. They can be very they can be more powerful than men. And men realized that and said, no, no, stay in the kitchen, please. We're scared.

00:28:31:10 - 00:28:43:56
Unknown
you would think that that would be something good. And I grew up, and I know you did, too, but, like, I grew up, like, my household is, like, basically, in part led by set up and propped up and

00:28:44:01 - 00:28:48:08
Unknown
Yeah, yeah.

00:28:48:13 - 00:28:49:32
Unknown
both work.

00:28:49:37 - 00:29:12:16
Unknown
My mother was the breadwinner. And like the tone setter in our house in many ways, my grandmother, her mom was like that. My dad's mother was like that. She was the standard bearer for they value education. And, you know, the things that are that led to the American dream, the way that it looks for the people of my ethnicity,

00:29:12:20 - 00:29:34:26
Unknown
No, no, that that's. I yeah, I a lot of the lessons I have learned came from very powerful, very strong women. Women who saw men for what they are, but also saw men for what they can be. And there there is a distinct difference between those two. And

00:29:34:31 - 00:29:42:53
Unknown
while I do love to lean into misandry a little bit in my 30s so far, I do believe that men can do good if they choose to.

00:29:42:53 - 00:29:51:27
Unknown
It's just that a lot of us don't, because it's easier to lean into a system that has always benefited, penis owners. Right?

00:29:51:32 - 00:29:55:04
Unknown
the the inherent difficulty of issuing

00:29:55:09 - 00:29:57:13
Unknown
Yeah.

00:29:57:18 - 00:30:13:35
Unknown
hard to do and it drives so much of it's just a banal thing, but it drives so much of the stuff that happens that we do as a society. Right? Or like as a system. Right. With respect to like exploiting cheap labor practice, making, you know, wealth inequality, all of that.

00:30:13:35 - 00:30:26:54
Unknown
Because we just don't want to give up a way of living that is convenient. The animal or the organism instinct of like, we want to not we want to conserve our resources and not spend them, even

00:30:26:59 - 00:30:53:38
Unknown
Well, and some of that is because the world that we currently live in likes to manufacture scarcity as well. And use it as a tool to further, capitalistic goals, not to mention the fact that the subjugation of people of color, especially in the United States. But this is also the world over, you know, so imperialism and,

00:30:53:43 - 00:31:18:07
Unknown
I think as men, it's harder to recognize being part of the problem and trying to be part of the solution versus just being like, well, I know men are the problem, or actually just completely lying and saying, men aren't the problem. It's women. That's a different thing. But I'm grateful for women.

00:31:18:12 - 00:31:35:24
Unknown
thing. It's a very salient point that you just made. It's like you have this. So there is this idea of that guilt that we were talking about that or whatever, self-effacing that, you know, we you know, for me, it's like, oh, I'm so humble and enlightened and I work so hard.

00:31:35:24 - 00:31:55:53
Unknown
And that's why I feel, you know, but, the reality is that, it's really, you know, there is a certain degree of, like an existential anguish that comes from accepting that thing that I benefited from privilege, and that although I didn't know or whatever, my intention wasn't to do harm. I did harm in a real way.

00:31:55:53 - 00:32:11:45
Unknown
And I have to just live with that. There's nothing you can do. The recognition of that. The white man's guilt, TM, of it is not enough. It doesn't. I can't squeeze that out of victims and get people to acknowledge me for how difficult it was and keep manufacturing low situations and make that better, you know, like, ameliorate it.

00:32:11:45 - 00:32:27:07
Unknown
You have to just live with the knowledge of that thing. You got to bear in the words of, you know, and you're going to bear that weight. You just have to bear that weight. There's no way around it. You have to have the bandwidth to accept that and move forward. And that's hard. And some people can do that and have the insight.

00:32:27:07 - 00:32:39:28
Unknown
And it's painful. Right? There's a degree of that that is just painful. And you have to live, you have to live in the world. But that's the case. And all the people that we know and love that have that, and we're being real about it, we're already doing it. And we just knew about it, and we're opting not to.

00:32:39:28 - 00:33:00:16
Unknown
And once I realized that, I was like, it snapped, something snapped in my head and I was like, oh, well, I have if I know this thing and I'm being real, I have a responsibility. And I to myself to act on this reality and better myself in that, you know, I have to come out of that and live in the actual

00:33:00:21 - 00:33:21:44
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. And that that was something that I really, honestly realized in my late 20s that the only way for me to really even process anything, not to mention the, the ADHD, right? I have to process things in the moment. I have to process things after the moment, and I have to be patient with myself when it comes to that.

00:33:21:44 - 00:33:33:25
Unknown
And learning that patience has been the worst part of it. It's it's like the art of delayed gratification a little bit. It's it's realizing.

00:33:33:30 - 00:33:44:13
Unknown
Right. Or even saying like, well, I, I'm not part of the problem because I was for a very long time, I was very much part of the problem, unwitting, unwittingly. But certainly I was.

00:33:44:18 - 00:33:59:49
Unknown
or having being a person who suffers from substance use disorder and like and being in recovery. It's like you're never not an addict. I always tell like this how I always think about it. I'm like, you're never you're never not a person who's part of the problem or delusional. It's just like how you stage

00:33:59:54 - 00:34:02:51
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah.

00:34:02:55 - 00:34:03:53
Unknown
male

00:34:03:58 - 00:34:05:03
Unknown
centered

00:34:05:08 - 00:34:07:21
Unknown
privilege is

00:34:07:26 - 00:34:08:31
Unknown
so

00:34:08:36 - 00:34:09:27
Unknown
easy

00:34:09:31 - 00:34:32:39
Unknown
to shoot up with. It's such a drug in itself, because even just being a man, regardless of skin color, in a room full of people, they're more likely to listen to you just because you're masculine. We're all kind of trained that way, and have it. Yeah. Oh yeah.

00:34:32:43 - 00:34:45:01
Unknown
and like like I am suffering despite, you know, trying really hard. You know, males don't get, you know, the, the precursor to that, like, quote unquote male loneliness epidemic. Go

00:34:45:06 - 00:35:06:24
Unknown
No. The male loneliness epidemic is because of men. It's not because of the and the the second that these lonely ass men realize it, if they can pull away from fucking their fists for long enough, they can actually deal with their actual issues and maybe find a partner, maybe even realize that they don't want women either.

00:35:06:29 - 00:35:16:49
Unknown
Yeah. Well, and and it's like, if you realize that thing, it's that same thing. It's accepting in yourself, like it's hard. It is existentially

00:35:16:54 - 00:35:18:41
Unknown
am lonely because of me.

00:35:18:46 - 00:35:19:39
Unknown
Yeah.

00:35:19:44 - 00:35:36:39
Unknown
And and you have to do that and accept that and let yourself know that so that you can go forward. You cannot go forward with lying to yourself in any capacity, because you will eventually forget that you're doing that bit and start to believe your own thing, and then you're acting, and then there it is.

00:35:36:39 - 00:35:37:48
Unknown
You're in a different

00:35:37:52 - 00:36:02:49
Unknown
Yep. And you've, you've put yourself there and you're still lonely somehow or you do. Oh sorry. You were saying you actually fix it and you go to a different multiverse where you are better. Yeah. Or you can stay in it and, and you can rot within it because, you know, the odds are if you are saying that everybody else is the problem and it's everybody else is the problem, except the.

00:36:02:54 - 00:36:27:41
Unknown
Yeah, you you have. Yeah, you have to look in the mirror at some point. You, you have to say to yourself, okay, if everybody's the problem, why is everybody the problem? Is it how I'm interacting with them? Is it how I'm interacting with the world? Is that how I engage with the world? And that's a very hard thing to fucking talk about, because sometimes it comes to a lot of fucking revelations that you don't necessarily want to have to come to grips with.

00:36:27:46 - 00:36:32:17
Unknown
case, that and and we all kind of know that. And that's the part about it like most

00:36:32:22 - 00:36:33:38
Unknown
Yeah.

00:36:33:43 - 00:36:42:23
Unknown
the part about it that we all know, it's like a shared truth of people in culture is that like things like, you know, even when they came out as a book, when it came out of the book.

00:36:42:23 - 00:36:43:50
Unknown
IRobot

00:36:43:55 - 00:36:46:51
Unknown
Oh yeah. Yeah.

00:36:46:56 - 00:37:04:53
Unknown
the kind of character Dell Spooner is kind of like, appealing as a hero slash anti-hero, in part because he asks that question that we all kind of like, sort of asks ourselves, right? We give ourselves that little bit of main character syndrome where we're like, he asks the question, is being the last sane man on earth?

00:37:04:53 - 00:37:20:49
Unknown
Or rather, does being the last sane man on earth make you crazy? I believe is the quote. And we the fact that we are all fascinated by that we find that compelling, tells us something about ourselves that we all wonder, am I the last sane person? And the odds are, no

00:37:20:54 - 00:37:22:41
Unknown
No, no.

00:37:22:46 - 00:37:30:32
Unknown
like, the reality is that we're just like doing we're we're ineffective, like efficient, but not fully efficient.

00:37:30:32 - 00:37:32:57
Unknown
Effective but not fully effective

00:37:32:57 - 00:37:41:17
Unknown
bio computers that use that can't use algorithms all the time and go to heuristics. And we do associations and we try to conserve

00:37:41:21 - 00:37:42:35
Unknown
Yeah. And,

00:37:42:40 - 00:37:44:43
Unknown
How do I want to say if you

00:37:44:48 - 00:37:48:48
Unknown
ugly and

00:37:48:53 - 00:37:53:43
Unknown
it was in that tone to me, I guess. I don't I don't know, I'm sorry. I didn't

00:37:53:48 - 00:37:56:44
Unknown
Hahahahahahahaha.

00:37:56:49 - 00:37:59:09
Unknown
because that's that's my

00:37:59:14 - 00:38:24:27
Unknown
I think that we have enough conscious time alive on this planet. The majority of us do that. We're gonna make a lot of mistakes for the entire time. There are so many mistakes to be made. It's the fact that if you keep making the same mistakes and you do nothing to rectify the behavior that's causing the mistakes or the regrets, if if it's really that bad.

00:38:24:32 - 00:38:27:55
Unknown
just bury your head in the sand about it via a narrative. You construct.

00:38:28:00 - 00:38:48:38
Unknown
Yeah. Or. Yeah, you you aren't growing. You didn't grow up. You didn't. You didn't actually come into what it means to be human. And also you you're not the main character. None of us are none. None of us are the main character ever. And you can't save the world as one person, as one man, or as one woman.

00:38:48:46 - 00:38:57:50
Unknown
And to set to set your expectations that high, speaking from experience, it's going to kill you. It just is.

00:38:57:55 - 00:39:17:05
Unknown
also like it. It is not right or healthy to be thinking that your or even whether or to construct a situation in which that's true, where you or any individual or small group of people has that much sway or sense that something that you do is going to have that kind of a far reaching,

00:39:17:10 - 00:39:20:35
Unknown
Yeah.

00:39:20:40 - 00:39:42:50
Unknown
mind altering. Like all of these people who lived in Versailles, it drove them mad when they fucking invented, like and there's like, all very compelling evidence from studies that have been done that once people become like, if you become really famous, or wealthy or whatever else, basically whatever that happens, your development functionally stops right there because you stop having to

00:39:42:55 - 00:39:44:51
Unknown
Yeah.

00:39:44:56 - 00:39:50:52
Unknown
that is too great is looking into the void, the abyss. If you look into the

00:39:50:57 - 00:40:05:12
Unknown
Yeah. And if you know. And sometimes the abyss smiles back and it feels like your only friend. But it's not. It's, It's it's a it's a devil that you don't believe in. It's, you know.

00:40:05:17 - 00:40:07:15
Unknown
explain? I'm not sure if I understand.

00:40:07:20 - 00:40:26:16
Unknown
For me, the abyss was a deep, deep, deep depression where I refused to believe that there was anything wrong with me other than a chemical imbalance, and I refused to believe that I had any more growing to do, and that I.

00:40:26:21 - 00:40:38:38
Unknown
I was my best self already. And it does. It can't get better. It won't get better. So I might as well never grow because I don't need to. Because I'm perfect. I'm all these things.

00:40:38:43 - 00:40:42:52
Unknown
did the work. And it should. I should be getting the rewards of that thing now, not having to fucking work

00:40:42:56 - 00:40:58:27
Unknown
and it wasn't rewarding and it wasn't, you know, the the life I was leading basically all through college up until maybe even 4 or 5 years ago was not a healthy one.

00:40:58:27 - 00:41:15:47
Unknown
It was. I was killing myself over and over and over again in my head, both like, literally, how do I kill myself? And also saying like, there can't yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. And also.

00:41:15:52 - 00:41:19:15
Unknown
content warning that sorry, I'm really sorry

00:41:19:20 - 00:41:45:20
Unknown
I will no, I, I'm going to put it in the episode description. Sam I and I, I'm, I'm, I'm happy to hear that I, I don't I'm not, I'm not at a planning stage of, of it anymore. I'm far from it. In fact, now. But back then read was trying to be somebody he wasn't. He was trying to live in a different universe.

00:41:45:20 - 00:42:07:51
Unknown
He was trying to live in a world that was not the one that he was currently living in. He did not want to accept that the world he was living in was filled with evil and, that he was part of, yeah. The way I talked, the way I used to speak about women when I was much younger,

00:42:07:56 - 00:42:10:34
Unknown
Dude, we were on Xbox Live during the early

00:42:10:39 - 00:42:13:05
Unknown
Oh, God.

00:42:13:10 - 00:42:13:50
Unknown
problem from there.

00:42:14:04 - 00:42:16:34
Unknown
like, and yeah,

00:42:16:39 - 00:42:18:23
Unknown
Right. And coming to

00:42:18:27 - 00:42:20:10
Unknown
grips with. Oh,

00:42:20:14 - 00:42:41:24
Unknown
sure. I was cheated on. That's not on me, though. No, it takes it. I'm. I'm a victim there. But it there is reflection in that. Why did that happen? You know why that happened, except why that happened. But sometimes that abyss smiling back at you, with its like Cheshire cat teeth is too tempting to stay in.

00:42:41:29 - 00:42:48:52
Unknown
of the Cheshire Cat when you mentioned The Abyss smiling back earlier, but I didn't. I don't know why I didn't say it's. I'm really glad you went back

00:42:48:57 - 00:43:03:26
Unknown
Yeah, because I can't smile at myself at the mirror. So at least the depression makes me feel like I can lean on it. It feels reliable and isolation feels predictable. But it's not healthy. It's not good. It's not.

00:43:03:31 - 00:43:22:09
Unknown
you can control the environment. An isolated environment in that case. Right. I love the I don't want to speak for you, but what I'm hearing you say is that in an isolated setting like that, you can control the environment and that's you can control the narrative. Then, like if you hold a little bit back, you have a place, a bolthole in your mind that you can go to.

00:43:22:13 - 00:43:31:24
Unknown
You can control the narrative and shield yourself from those painful realizations and basically shield yourself from having to put in that executive

00:43:31:29 - 00:43:51:36
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. It was also like, well, if I can construct the narrative, I can remain the main character. I can remain this this, important person in, in people's lives by just being able to control that or I don't want to be part of people's lives at all.

00:43:51:36 - 00:43:54:55
Unknown
always want to have that option. I don't want to have to put all of my skin in the game.

00:43:55:00 - 00:43:58:23
Unknown
Right. Because it's either I'm too good for those people or I'm.

00:43:58:32 - 00:44:02:26
Unknown
I'm not good enough for those people. It's always been a sliding scale for me.

00:44:02:31 - 00:44:10:36
Unknown
accept that I'm not good enough for those people, I have to look at why that might be and do and reckon and feel some things that I have been trying to hide from myself.

00:44:10:41 - 00:44:35:57
Unknown
Right. And so I think that the more that men especially come to terms with that reality, that men have indeed fucked a lot of shit up, more so than I think they've. Yeah, they fucked it up. So, yeah, direct, direct feeding that abyss into their veins. Right. Just that's why they tell you to isolate. That's why all these alpha males tell you to isolate.

00:44:35:57 - 00:44:45:02
Unknown
Because that's what they did to themselves. They they took that drug. They they they took the pill, as it were. Right? Whether they call it red pilling.

00:44:45:06 - 00:45:06:11
Unknown
you saying. Yeah. From red pilling. We hear you people saying, okay, we hear you fucking I'm sure that there's going to be some of you pubes who are like, actually Eltham people that you are who you to isolate. They're just like telling you to live better and be healthy and like Swift and do hustle and make money so that you can have high value so you can be a high value person.

00:45:06:15 - 00:45:36:17
Unknown
Okay? They are basically indicating that you're going to do a bunch of stuff that fucks a bunch of people over, or like they're saying that you have to be like hostile or just like in a way that is like buy into something that is like not inherently true or insightful and, accurate and in tight. And it is entitled and if you believe that thing, it is inherently isolating in the same way that, for example, I was describing a sense of isolation that I hadn't realized that I had put in between myself and my sister because of the lack of realization that I had had about that thing.

00:45:36:24 - 00:45:42:57
Unknown
Okay. So like where there it is, I've spelled out the inference for you

00:45:43:02 - 00:46:05:34
Unknown
And I'll, I'll go further. Right. The activities they tell you to do are self isolating, you know, stay at work, have multiple jobs, while also somehow continuing your misogyny and all of these things. And this is not an episode about them that's coming later this year, but yeah.

00:46:05:39 - 00:46:09:37
Unknown
2025 because everything we talk about keeps like connecting to this

00:46:09:42 - 00:46:40:07
Unknown
Right. And because you're not practicing radical acceptance of yourself, of your situation, of the truth, of the matter, of actual facts as well, you with not accepting that you are choosing to live in a reality that does not align with the reality you're currently sitting in. You are trying to form a narrative around yourself that is ineffectual because the world that you live in, the universe that you were born into and again, I know we didn't ask to be here.

00:46:40:07 - 00:47:07:15
Unknown
None of us did. You are hurting yourself and others constantly by not trying to be part of a better solution for for women, for yourself, for future friends, and for any sort of hope that you could have for yourself. Either you have given up. You are saying to yourself that nothing will ever be better than this. It can't be better.

00:47:07:20 - 00:47:18:00
Unknown
I'm not even going to try. You gave up and that is what the alpha alpha male mentality is telling you to do. It literally is telling you to give up.

00:47:18:05 - 00:47:25:17
Unknown
there's nothing that can be better. It's an inherently cruel world, and we nothing that we can do will ever fix that in any way. So we should meaningfully not ever make that fucking effort.

00:47:25:23 - 00:47:41:14
Unknown
so what I've become so keenly aware of is the men that I'm around, the women that I'm around, and I don't mind accepting different views if their views are based in the same world that I'm currently living in,

00:47:41:19 - 00:47:51:26
Unknown
where we're both dealing with the same amount of facts and but we can't do that. The world over has started to just become.

00:47:51:31 - 00:47:57:14
Unknown
The lies are becoming much clearer. They especially in the United States, they don't even give a fuck anymore.

00:47:57:19 - 00:48:28:41
Unknown
to have that conversation amongst ourselves, right people, to with one another, to be able to recognize this thing and move forward, like, first of all, like to get the people who have the willingness you have to be able to exchange this information honestly. And there are so many ways that things like, obviously like the alpha male culture thing and like misinformation and the growth of that thing, like think tanks and manufacturing of like, facts or factual appearing things, which is what inspires ultimately my pseudoscience Sunday

00:48:28:46 - 00:48:32:51
Unknown
seeing is what leads to like, so that you can shield so that we can shield

00:48:32:51 - 00:48:34:38
Unknown
ourselves from that thing

00:48:34:43 - 00:48:50:41
Unknown
so that we can keep so that the truth, the true piece of it. The more that it's hard to like, talk about and quantify, the harder it is to like fix and undo that thing. And make no mistake, there are people in some cases that are doing this in a very intentional way to protect their interest.

00:48:50:53 - 00:49:11:02
Unknown
And that's why when I look at men and women out in the wild or just people out in the wild, generally I try to see, like, are you protecting your peace and is your peace actual peace, or is it a lie that's been fed to you that feels like peace, but is in fact just a grift? You

00:49:11:12 - 00:49:34:12
Unknown
people, I also add in that thing in myself. Right? I'm like, and is it like that thing? There's that. And then the following thing, like, are you aware of that in some way? And choosing to shield yourself from it, whether consciously, partially, consciously or not, because there's like I feel like there's like knowing that thing and accepting it, knowing that, knowing that thing and shielding yourself from it and then not knowing that thing and then not being able to accept that or doing

00:49:34:17 - 00:49:35:32
Unknown
Right.

00:49:35:37 - 00:49:42:41
Unknown
from there you stratify like not knowing that thing and not accepting it, but not being hateful and then not knowing that they not accepting it and then being hateful.

00:49:42:51 - 00:49:46:01
Unknown
if the world really is that scary.

00:49:46:06 - 00:49:58:10
Unknown
Then survival wouldn't even be possible at this, at this scale, right? These people are just so terrified of the world because, yeah, the world is scary. I'm not going to lie about that. But if damn nature.

00:49:58:14 - 00:50:05:23
Unknown
You have to accept that reality and enjoy what life has to offer, because you only get this one shot at it.

00:50:05:23 - 00:50:37:27
Unknown
Truly. And the only in the way that you're choosing to spend it is either making other, people's lives worse, making your own life worse both. Or you just want to stay in the basement and watch these shitty fucking political commentators do shitty fucking political takes that make you feel better in that moment? And then the second you turn off that screen, if you ever fucking leave it, you feel nothing.

00:50:37:32 - 00:51:03:50
Unknown
just want to watch like Hamilton over and over again? Or like talk about the most like stuff like that, right. And then feel like and then not engage with any of the meaningful pieces of what actually happens to people who are marginalized or whatever else, and then feel really good that you're inclusive because you didn't get upset that there were that this display features that is about people who are not

00:51:03:55 - 00:51:12:11
Unknown
sorry. Continue that remark. And then I have one point I do want to make about, what I think that means, like how we should treat men about the misandry

00:51:12:15 - 00:51:18:40
Unknown
Well, I, I did finish my remark, but what I will say about the misandry thing before, I let you go off,

00:51:18:45 - 00:51:20:07
Unknown
is that.

00:51:20:12 - 00:51:39:34
Unknown
Men, including us, if we say some shit on this podcast that needs to be shamed, shame us. But more men need to be publicly shamed and need to be comfortable with receiving that feedback. I'm not saying that shaming people should be bullying. There's a difference. I think there's a difference between shame and bullying.

00:51:39:38 - 00:51:49:44
Unknown
But more men need to be pointed out about how toxic they are and why more men need to be told in public that what they're doing is actual insanity.

00:51:49:49 - 00:51:51:18
Unknown
And yeah,

00:51:51:23 - 00:51:52:40
Unknown
discourse is really

00:51:52:45 - 00:51:53:22
Unknown
yes,

00:51:53:27 - 00:51:54:26
Unknown
Like. Like

00:51:54:31 - 00:52:02:48
Unknown
same for women, too. I think women, I think everybody should be called out more, period. But I am a map, so I'm going to talk about a map.

00:52:02:53 - 00:52:27:30
Unknown
So so here's my, here's the thing I want to add, and I, I am, a man. Imma carry hype x y, identifying and presenting as such that benefited from being able to have this awareness of this thing brought to me by people through gentle, consistent support that people gave me. And they didn't like, come for me and shame me in the comment or whatever, right?

00:52:27:40 - 00:52:46:20
Unknown
People were like, loved me and respected me enough that like, they knew that I was going to. That was going to be really hard for me. My sister, one of the conversations we had most recently, also, she said she was like, you know, like before, like, you know, I find it hard because like, you know, like, I mean, this and this, like, you would get touchy about that if I could bring that stuff up, you know, like, and I, you know, it's not that I know that you didn't mean.

00:52:46:27 - 00:52:58:24
Unknown
I know that you didn't mean to be and you didn't have, like, you know, do you believe that? Truly. And at some level, it's like, I know that you mean. Well, I know that you also love it's gray, and it's just better like to not go there because I don't want to. It's it's hard to be faced with that.

00:52:58:29 - 00:53:21:41
Unknown
And, and I think a really big piece of that is and this is the hard thing for me to say is that I don't think we have to have these conversations, honestly, but having too much harshness toward people that we're trying to give new information to and ultimately open up the fold and say, hey, like we're all on the same team except for this thing, and we can try to work forward together.

00:53:21:46 - 00:53:37:18
Unknown
Is going to push more people into the arms of these weird alpha male people who do truly look around and like in culture or whatever that they're absorbing. See that like, oh, you know what? Everybody's mad at me. And I didn't know that. I didn't ask to be. And this is true to a point. They didn't ask to be born AB, I guess.

00:53:37:18 - 00:53:57:30
Unknown
And like, I'm not saying that like because of that, this excuses them. But I do think that those of us who are informed about this are aware it's incumbent upon us that wish to share it or disseminate this thing, to do so in a way that doesn't alienate people. If at the very least, because at the end, we're just making enemies that we're going to have to deal with later.

00:53:57:35 - 00:54:07:00
Unknown
And I as a person that was probably in the

00:54:07:05 - 00:54:16:24
Unknown
Same.

00:54:16:29 - 00:54:19:00
Unknown
years and years, I've like come to this thing, right?

00:54:19:00 - 00:54:49:18
Unknown
And, you know, people have the faith in me. Like you said, our the a fab females x whatever people women I'm going to use or women that you know that have seen what we could be as a result of that. Like my my partner is in medicine, as well as me. And it's just like the different standards that the, love living and honestly, just the different way that she gets treated at all of my, all of her colleagues in that way get treated that I do.

00:54:49:18 - 00:55:05:16
Unknown
And the amount of privilege and ease that I get to navigate that world with or whatever, like I would have been if I had a fraction of that happened to me, I'd be so bitter and be starting a fight with everybody and constantly reminding everybody about it. And everybody was really gentle and consistent with me and gave me a lot of room, even though it made them lonelier.

00:55:05:21 - 00:55:24:13
Unknown
And, you know, it's not like they have a secret network of people that they're connecting with to, like, have those refueling human relationships, like my sister just didn't like, you know, she had that from some people. But like, her brother couldn't be that well, like, you can talk about that with me. And we're close, you know. And so it's just gentleness was the way for me.

00:55:24:13 - 00:55:37:56
Unknown
And I want to espouse that. I know we joke and talk about misandry and calling people out, and I agree with that. But I you know, I want to be clear. I know that Red feels this way like, and you said it

00:55:38:01 - 00:55:44:18
Unknown
No. It's.

00:55:44:23 - 00:55:53:23
Unknown
our, you know, I will make our best effort to have an honest conversation and reflection about it doesn't mean that I might not stand my ground or whatever. Talk about it, but we will talk about it.

00:55:53:23 - 00:55:56:59
Unknown
And sometimes,

00:55:57:04 - 00:56:00:35
Unknown
Oh, same.

00:56:00:40 - 00:56:11:43
Unknown
done for me. It's the way I want to try to do it for people, except for that subset of people that know and are choosing to, like, consciously be harmful anyways because they would rather just do

00:56:11:48 - 00:56:14:12
Unknown
Yeah.

00:56:14:17 - 00:56:17:42
Unknown
that we can all get on the same page if we just make space for it.

00:56:17:47 - 00:56:18:16
Unknown
If that makes

00:56:18:28 - 00:56:20:24
Unknown
it does, a lot of sense

00:56:20:34 - 00:56:23:28
Unknown
thing to be often is kind.

00:56:23:33 - 00:56:27:27
Unknown
Yes. And I think that we need a lot more of that to.

00:56:27:32 - 00:56:28:46
Unknown
that remind us of ourselves.

00:56:28:57 - 00:56:46:52
Unknown
Yeah. And gentleness works for me, but I somehow always end up learning lessons the hard way. I always end up fucking up majorly. And like, learning it the hard way. But, you know, that aside, I just think that the shaming and the praising is community building.

00:56:46:52 - 00:56:53:46
Unknown
I just think you have to you can't just exclude people and hope that community finds you

00:56:53:51 - 00:56:55:00
Unknown
to marginalize

00:56:55:05 - 00:56:56:17
Unknown
Yeah.

00:56:56:21 - 00:57:09:08
Unknown
like it's so painful already when that happens to you against your will. And it's happening to so many people already against their will that are aware of it. It's just like I we can't I just think we cannot be doing it to ourselves where

00:57:09:13 - 00:57:30:43
Unknown
Because, yeah. And the negative, those negative feelings towards people or those negative sentiments, at the very least, are just as much of a choice as the positive ones, the to choose to hate women because they're not sleeping with you. That's a choice. So I said you chose to do it. That is it. That.

00:57:30:48 - 00:57:37:22
Unknown
about that, it's not actually hate or whatever. And if that they were not if you're saying like if they acted a certain different way, then you wouldn't be mean to them. Like

00:57:37:27 - 00:57:42:36
Unknown
That's it's hateful, it's misogynistic. It's a whole host of words.

00:57:42:41 - 00:58:00:49
Unknown
just as much as praise is or or showing gratitude, saying, I'm grateful for you, I appreciate you, thank you. That is also a choice to make. And just because it seems to be part of how we interact in language, doesn't mean that it isn't coming from the heart, or that it shouldn't come from the heart.

00:58:00:49 - 00:58:26:34
Unknown
All of it. The the if you if you choose to love somebody in any way, whether it's a friendship, romantic relationship, whatever love being your bottom line will guide you so much further than hate and anger, but you're going to feel hate and anger. That's what human beings do. We feel. And you have to accept that because you can't turn it off.

00:58:26:39 - 00:58:41:19
Unknown
try to understand it and optimize that thing, rather than do whatever Olympic gymnastics that you're going to try to do to hide that piece of it, you know, because at the end of the day, like, you'll, you know, the pale horse is coming for coming with you, whatever it looks like, whatever that means to you.

00:58:41:19 - 00:58:49:43
Unknown
And you might as well, you know, greet them like an old friend and have a talk. Then run and sweat and

00:58:49:48 - 00:59:11:51
Unknown
Yeah. And so until we can actually hop universes or alternate timelines, whatever the theory you subscribe to is until we can do that, this is the world you live in. This is this is the body you were given. Make a decision that benefits you the most. And if you think that hating people is benefiting you the most, fuck you.

00:59:11:56 - 00:59:29:47
Unknown
lying about it and like knowing that or if you know the consequences of what's happening and you're still choosing to about that consciously for your own benefit, like here's this, have to ask yourself and like, look at that and accept it. If not, yeah, I agree, fuck you. And finally, related to this,

00:59:29:52 - 00:59:33:26
Unknown
Yes.

00:59:33:31 - 00:59:38:44
Unknown
you know, I think.

00:59:38:49 - 01:00:01:46
Unknown
At some level, if I want to take it from abstract and make it really concrete and make it like a logic formula for those of you that are into that kind of thing. I know that I can be, and I process things like that for myself. If you are opting to approach in the big picture your superego the best, when you're your best self and you're aiming at that, you know, we I accept that most of us, not every day, all the time, is doing able to do that.

01:00:01:46 - 01:00:24:47
Unknown
That's not realistic. But if you are, you know your best self, your goal when you're doing that, when you can, when it matters, is to say, I would choose to make sure that I'm expressing kindness or whatever. Love the the the non-negativity, the non hate to make sure that everybody who deserves it and needs it gets it. Accepting that there are going to be some people in the margin of error that are going to get it, that maybe didn't.

01:00:24:52 - 01:00:44:25
Unknown
That is still better, because at least then you're at least trying to say that everybody who needs it will get it, rather than this idea that I am so upset or unhappy about the idea that people who don't deserve it are going to get something, that I'm willing to let people who do need or deserve something, not

01:00:44:30 - 01:00:53:59
Unknown
That is violence. It is. It's not even just holding back physical resources. It's also holding back emotional ones. It's holding back any sort of

01:00:54:04 - 01:00:59:57
Unknown
gravity towards human beings that we're all naturally prone to in varying degrees. And

01:01:00:05 - 01:01:18:59
Unknown
it's unfair to yourself and it what it really leads to is the thought for me is if you are unhappy in the body you're in, if you're unhappy with the universe that you've been given the world you live in, ask yourself why

01:01:19:04 - 01:01:20:44
Unknown
and dissect that further.

01:01:20:44 - 01:01:33:11
Unknown
Don't just be told why you should be unhappy. Don't be told why what you should be doing about it. Figure it out. Read a book. Look in the mirror.

01:01:33:16 - 01:01:54:21
Unknown
But like, don't you want to give yourself the best shot of being able to understand? I'm not saying that asking. You know, we're not saying that. Asking yourself why is going to cure the crushing poverty or systemic inequity or something. Not at all. But does don't you think that it, like, gives you the best chance of connecting with other people that have that understanding and to solve that problem or do whatever is just

01:01:54:26 - 01:02:24:32
Unknown
Yeah. Be real and just accept the situation for what it is. And I know I make that sound easy. I'm still working on it. I've been working on that for years. And there is no shame in working on yourself if it means that you are better for yourself and for those around you. If you are still finding that people are not gravitating towards you, ask yourself why.

01:02:24:37 - 01:02:34:47
Unknown
It's really, truly that simple. But it's also so very complex and it's different for every single person on this planet.

01:02:34:52 - 01:02:46:51
Unknown
accountable and getting other perspectives, trusting other people. It's born of being honest with yourself and being honest with them. But it's also a it's a need we

01:02:46:56 - 01:02:49:07
Unknown
Yeah.

01:02:49:12 - 01:02:56:49
Unknown
whatever it is, anything that we couldn't all do ourselves, it's what strengthens us. And so this is just another version of that in my opinion.

01:02:56:49 - 01:03:14:25
Unknown
And it's important and it's what makes me that really big thing. Abstract gray is what reminds me or keeps me, I guess, present this year and has been, and I think it's a piece I've added to my toolbox as it were, since then, you know, and we feel really strongly about

01:03:14:30 - 01:03:19:31
Unknown
yeah, that's that's what I've added to myself this year as well, is, is recognizing

01:03:19:36 - 01:03:28:28
Unknown
the community that not only that I have as a content creator, but also the community that I have outside of that off offline,

01:03:28:33 - 01:03:49:10
Unknown
they each serve different purposes for me. I can't say I love one more than the other. I am very that that's what keeps me humble. It's what keeps me grounded. And it's also what keeps me practicing love and what keeps me practicing self-acceptance and situational acceptance. And.

01:03:49:15 - 01:03:51:42
Unknown
Recognizing inequity

01:03:51:46 - 01:03:55:30
Unknown
where wherever it is, you know, and I'm I'm actually grateful for that.

01:03:55:30 - 01:04:01:16
Unknown
I'm grateful for having that lens. Now I gained that lens. It's all related. It.

01:04:01:21 - 01:04:03:31
Unknown
able to know it and see it than

01:04:03:36 - 01:04:11:08
Unknown
Yes. And we are all capable and worthy of love. It has nothing to do with your money, your power. Your fame

01:04:11:13 - 01:04:14:03
Unknown
we, if we practice more love with each other,

01:04:14:08 - 01:04:21:54
Unknown
life could be so much easier. And that's why I am hopeful for the future.

01:04:22:07 - 01:04:46:11
Unknown
But I'm not going to live in it. I'm going to see what happens as we go. I'm going to stay in the now what you. I thought you said, can I lick it? And I was like, oh, I guess, can you I mean, I guess you can try. It might, it might be, it might be a little bit.

01:04:46:16 - 01:05:06:10
Unknown
this conversation went in a direction I didn't anticipate it, but I, I'm also really grateful for that. Truly. The these podcasts keep me grounded, too. I'm really happy to hear that. So that's really all the thoughts I have on this one. Well, do you have any other remarks?

01:05:06:15 - 01:05:22:45
Unknown
the last thing, I guess is I have to circle back to that thing, that I said it maybe a little bit glibly, but it really is like having substance abuse disorder or any such thing that is similar. It's functionally, like you said, and you shoot up with it is another really good night to tying that together.

01:05:22:50 - 01:05:42:38
Unknown
You know, you're always an addict. You're just in a state like, no matter what, right? And lying is a drug. Just like anything else. You're lying to yourself. And so, you know, it's okay to remember that you're always going to have that. You know, you always have a problem. It's why they open up those meetings that are like, you know, any in any of these blank, anonymous things, right?

01:05:42:53 - 01:06:02:28
Unknown
I'm blank and I am an addict or I have a whatever. Right. And that's what it is. I'm dull and I'm a person who lies to myself, and that's what it is. And that's okay. Like, you know, that doesn't make me any less. It just is what it is. We've all got our challenges and, you know, just as long as you can accept that thing and try to operate with that, it's all you know, that's irresponsibility.

01:06:02:28 - 01:06:21:45
Unknown
Beyond that, just do your goddamn best, people. We're asking for you. That's the minimum. And I don't know, that's all we're saying. And that's I just wanted to close on that because I never I always remind myself in these moments, like when somebody reads me for film where I actually only have to come across this

01:06:21:50 - 01:06:26:16
Unknown
I to, addict that is a and also

01:06:26:21 - 01:06:29:27
Unknown
thank you all for being distracted with us.

01:06:29:32 - 01:06:33:08
Unknown
Thank you for taking the dive. And welcome to season two.

01:06:33:08 - 01:06:38:16
Unknown
We are so happy to have you. So happy to be here. And, good night.